Do I really want to talk pride with an American, even when it is my best friend? Yes, I think we can do it without risking a major international crisis, right? I started writing this as an answer to my friend's comment but it has grown to be too big to let it stay in the comment section. And seemed too important to leave it there.
My point when I was writing my last post was not to judge which approach to pride is better. I wanted to spell it out, mostly for myself, how we treat this feeling in Poland. I don't like extremes and that is why I am not very appreciative of how difficult it is to feel pride in Poland without being stigmatized as someone truly obnoxious. But I also think that displaying pride on every possible occassion is simply too much, somehow makes any achievement less admirable - as if we've spent all the admiration possible for it already, I don't know if that expresses my exact feeling about this clearly. I think it has a lot to do with our culture and what we have been surrounded with most of our lives. I think my understanding of pride is very different from what my American friend feels about it and possibly from my Polish-influenced British friend as well.
I'll try to explain why Americans may be disliked sometimes - when they display their pride for their country and say how it is the best possible place on earth to live in - what meaning can it have for the rest of the world? Americans may say at this point: "Feel free to talk the same way about your country," but wouldn't that be a little silly? Everybody singing praises for their one and only the most wonderful piece of the globe... It seems that in Europe being proud has a very strong connotation of lifting oneself above another so Americans are doomed to be perceived as obnoxious. Hearing Americans expressing their pride for their country makes people feel that Americans must consider themselves superior to other nations - to these poor unlucky non-Americans. Most people don't like to be pitied or looked down upon so it awakes negative emotions in them. Maybe the whole situation is the source of European scorn towards Americans. Now, the question if Americans really feel superior to other nations is something I don't think I can answer. Again, I hate generalizations.
One last thing - I think we need to be a little more open-minded and not project our own understanding of the world and words, for that matter, on other people. So maybe some or many Americans are not that obnoxious but just behave in a way that feels natural to them but also some or many non-Americans are not just pretending to be non-proud, they truly can't make themselves feel proud because they have been taught their whole lives that it is wrong to feel that way, and even worse and disrespectful to stick it in somebody else's face. I don't think we should suspect that people that appear humble are hypocrites just because humility is not highly valued in our culture. I have been taught that humility is a virtue and pride is a vice. The lesson must have stuck - maybe that's why I had to be practically forced by persuasion that my achievements at QC were actually something to be proud of. I came up with countless reasons for why I did so well - that I had some training back in Poland, that I was more mature than most students, that my mom helped me for a few semesters, etc. - of course, it had nothing to do with all the effort I put into it, sacrifices I had to make, or, God forbid, my skills, talent, or intellect! I think I am not alone in it - we will do our best trying to kill any emerging feelings of pride because we know it is dagerous, we have a strongly ingrained fear, maybe even a certainty, that it is a straight road to becoming full of onerself, conceited, simply an impossible person.
I was always told that people of the greatest minds were modest, that people that really did great things never thought much of themselves, that only the ones that are not too amazing need to make a big fuss about themselves to cover up their deficits. I am not saying that it is always true, but when you hear something like this often enough when you are a child, it sure shapes the way you perceive the world. So maybe some of us are subconsciously striving to be great and virtuous, however futile it may be, while others do take a shortcut and only pretend to be humble without even trying to fight their abominable pride?
I have just one more thing to say right now and please treat it more like thinking aloud, just some ideas that have come to my mind while writing this post. I would like to find out if it makes any sense, if possible. There is no intention here to offend anybody's feelings - I hope people who know me will have no doubt about that. Just overactive mind.
Can it be that patriotism was so promoted in the US because that was the only base for building some solidarity within the new country back when it was created? And it has been used since then to promote the same feeling among millions of newcomers just to make the country grow and be somehow unified and not fractioned by persistent loyalties towards countless foreign countries? That could make governing such a huge country quite difficult, I guess. Or it has been believed to be this way. I'm really not an expert on politics so I'll stop talking about that. But a similar reasoning can be applied to language policy at schools (that I know a little about and learnt about it from Americans) that for a very long time has concentrated on eradicating minority languages among immigrant children - something that is changing only very slowly right now. Obviously, keeping your minority language potentially allows for closer ties with your parents' culture and may slow down your acculturation process - and fast acculturation is perceived as very desirable under the cover of giving everybody equal chances. In reality, however, it can be quite problematic. Enough about that! I came here to relax and not deal with heavy topics! If it is going to continue I will alienate my American friend, whom I love dearly, and she will not come to visit! Next post will be about flowers and bees and the like....
2 comments:
First, I am most certain that this innocent conversation will not lead to any form of crisis in my life. There would have to be something truly terrible to create a crisis -- and an interesting discussion with a friend wouldn't do that. And I too hate generalizations, but it's impossible not to generalize when we are writing about such broad, but interesting, topics like this.
We've had many discussions about how destructive the most negative form of pride (hubris, et.al.) can be. Much pain and anguish has been brought about in my life because of people's unnatural amount of pride. You know about that.
I also don't like boastful pride. It's just plain ugly and, yes, assumes that one person feels superior to another (whether or not that is truly felt by the offender).
I don't mind celebratory pride - ie. being proud of my children for their accomplishments, being proud of a friend for working hard and accomplishing great things. I think we could change the word "shows pride" to "celebrates" accomplishments and we might be in agreement.
I think it's the pride based on one's origin that seems to irritate you a lot though. Yes, that is pride that is unearned by the individual,as you noted. But isn't that type of pride not necessary for civilization? When you feel pride for your country or your city or your small town, it brings about feelings of communion with others in your community or city. You have a common bond with all others there -- even when everything else in your life is different.
Please note that I do not approve of wars -- and I certainly do not want to get into a discussion about wars here, but if nationalistic pride didn't exist, then voluntary armies wouldn't have members. There would be no reason to volunteer to protect your country if you didn't feel like your country was worth it above all others.
I understand why American pride may seem to imply that the person showing the pride thinks they are so much better. However that is not an American problem, it is a human problem. I have seen that type of pride come from so many other people from other countries that you have to just look at it and say -- of course that person feels their country is the best country. That's because it is the best...for them. I have seen it in every other country that I've ever visited. In fact, I think people go out of their way in Europe to make Americans feel they are truly inferior. (That is, until they get to know the person, then all bets are off and people treat each other with respect.)
I feel that American pride was and is borne from a nation of immigrants that came here with NOTHING (example: both my parents). Most people came here at some point extremely poor, some without a coin in their pockets -- often forced out of their countries or escaping brutal treatment. Many had no choice but to become proud of their new nation, because there was nothing left at home to be proud of. For the most part, America has opened its arms (or eventually opened its arms) to people from all nations -- telling them you are now an American and you may take advantage of our free-market society and you may make a better life for yourself and your family AND you will be one of us. And yet, I have seen people spit at that and think: I can come to America, earn a lot of money, take advantage of what it offers, then I will run back home with my pockets full and spend my American-made money in my home country because my home country is obviously more "civilized" and "cultured" or whatever. (And yes, I have relatives who have done exactly that and who are collecting American Social Security benefits in Europe as we speak.) Now that form of pride offends me.
Oh my God, and I wanted to finish with that already...
I'm all for feeling some kind of communion with people living in your city, town, or a tiny village. Why not? But I still think "being proud" of the fact that I live in a certain place is still not the way to go. I feel you cannot be proud of something you have no control over or is not something you have achieved. And I think brainwashing young people with national pride as a way to send them to some war that fills other people's pockets is plain wrong. Last year over 2,000 American soldiers tried to commit suicide after their war experience. I don't remember exactly but I think more than 150 of them succeeded. Pride is not enough, I guess...
I believe one of the reasons Europeans try to make Americans feel inferior is because they have enough of their pride already (especially the way they see it). Anyway, I don't think it is very common in Poland, on the contrary.
Also, I think your vision of America and immigrants (cheap labor), open arms (not always, still), one of us (so that you don't make trouble), etc. is a little too romantic and idealistic for me, as I expressed in the parenthesis. But I'm sure that it is installed in Americans starting at a very young age. Obviously, they will teach their kids all the good things America has done.
To give you an example from my backyard (do you say that in English?), Polish people still have to apply for a visa at the American Embassy (only in Warsaw or in Cracow and Poland is not that small) to go to the U.S. and although it is getting easier to get "permission" to go, not so long ago most people were denied the privilige (me - three times) and only after paying a non-refundable and considerable for many fee plus experiencing a fair dose of humiliation.
Of course there will always be spit and run people (although their pockets are not so full now that dollar got so weak) but we should also remember that when they worked in the U.S. they did a lot of work that pays so poorly while being really straining that many Americans would not even consider doing it. And if they did they would have to be paid considerably higher wages, which would mean somebody would have to pay more for their house, for remodelling, etc. - so it's not like all the money's gone, right? And I'm personally not so sure having more money or even more opportunities ensure a better life, especially if you paid for it with your identity. It's only now that people are realizing that "a melting pot" may be quite damaging to people. I like the idea of not making immigrants feel like outsiders all the time but taking the "one of us" thing a little too far may not necessarily be a blessing.
I am not saying what you wrote is all false - it was true for many. I just wanted present the other side of the reality. You know, for many years, as a child, I believed that Americans (whoever they were, I did not really care) did fly over to drop those bugs on our potato fields... and now you're telling me you didn't?!
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